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2dornot2dforum.myfastforum.org
A place to discuss all issues relating to traditional 2D animation in a digital world.
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pradeep
Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 1
Location: mumbai
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: How do you guys survive? |
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Hi
I am from a small group of 2d animators in India who have stubbernly resisted venturing to 3d so far. Its because I am doing my own stuff - and don't work for any outsourcing companies here.
Most of my friends are doing pure labour job in these companies.
For me and my friends it is a real struggle to get small advertisement jobs and television jobs through which we survive.
What about you people?
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Pradeep Nayak
Mumbai, India
realpradeep@yahoo.com |
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Scuzzbopper
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Pradeep-
For myself, I'm not doing 2D Animation commercially. I have a full-time job working in admissions and teaching at a school that offers animation training. My own animation work is done at home after-hours, for my own personal short film. I do get the occasion to freelance sometimes as well.
There's a very good book by David Levy called 'Your Career in Animation' which I highly recommend you pick up. It has some sections on running your own animation studio and survival tips.
Best of luck!
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Ken Priebe
Author, 'The Art of Stop-Motion Animation'
Senior Advisor/Instructor, VanArts
& Murkworks Head Writer
www.scuzzbopper.blogspot.com
www.storytimewithnigel.blogspot.com
www.vanarts.com
"I can move! I can talk! I can walk!" |
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DavidN
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Welcome to the forum, Pradeep .
I can only speak to the situation in North America because that's what I know. Not sure how it is in your part of the world other than what you mention in your post above.
| Quote: | | For me and my friends it is a real struggle to get small advertisement jobs and television jobs through which we survive |
I'm in the same boat right now. Most of my career in animation has been in the big studio environment (Disney) and even post-Disney from 2004 to beginning of 2007 working for a video game company doing animation.
We had a full staff of 35 + people at the game studio and all the usual equipment, etc. so it was a very familiar environment for me . The transition to being a freelance animation artist all on my own has been a challenge for me in these first six months of 2007. I haven't found much animation or clean-up work out there , but some work doing storyboards and character designs or single illustrations in cartoon style.
I've been blessed to have kept working full-time in hand-drawn animation as long as I did . The last 5 years have been lean years for hand-drawn animation , but the business has always been cyclical , with ups and downs seeming to occur ever 15 years . It seems to me that every 15 years (in North America) there have been big studio closures and layoffs and the conventional wisdom proclaims : "Animation is dead" (the last go around of this was specifically : "2D animation is dead" ) . But it looks like the cycle may be coming around to where hand-drawn animation is gaining some ground again. The novelty factor of CG is gone and there have been enough CG "bombs" at the box-office at this point that even silly studio execs realize that a CG animated movie has to have good story and engaging characters to make it work, not just eye candy. (Thank you , Pixar !)
I think the key to survival is to work smart and keep the overhead down. An obscene amount of money was wasted on the big studio features done at Disney , Dreamworks, Warner's , and Fox in the 90's . The money that was spent didn't necessarily end up on the screen. I think smaller, artist-run "boutique studios" allow projects to be made less expensively and with less executive meddling from people who don't really know the creative process. It's a challenge and a struggle no matter what .
I don't have much experience running a studio. One of the members here, Michael Sporn , does have that experience , having functioned as an independent animator/studio owner for many years. Hopefully he will chime in on this discussion.
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MarkBorok
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| I'm actually not sure how I've managed to survive. I was just asking myself that very question when I saw this post. Mostly I've been scraping the bottom of the barrel, working on low budget shows or interactive things, with here and there a few illustrations. Not having any other marketable skills certainly doesn't help. |
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MichaelS
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 10
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I've had my own studio for the past 27 years doing 2D animation. At the beginning it was hard getting myself the few clients I could find. Then I found the ones I had were good ones and they kept coming back. As a result of that I was able to do about 30 half hour shows (all written, boarded, animated and colored in my own studio). I was able to get that work by doing it inexpensively and creatively. If I had been competing with big studios - cost wise - I wouldn't get the job.
So then the bottom fell out of 2D animation unless you want to do Flash. (And I don't. I don't think of it as animation just movement.) I still have a couple of the same clients who come back, and it's a struggle. In some ways it's always been a struggle. If I didn't desperately love what I do, I would have quit years ago.
I didn't. I started developing my own feature and soon enough I had a script and a lot of artwork. Then I met a producer through another project, and now I may have a VERY LOW BUDGET feature to do.
The short answer to your question is that things happen. But you also have to make them happen. If no one wants your work, you have to do more of it for yourself, and you have to keep at it keep at it keep at it. If you can only do films for yourself, do them. Eventually, if they're good, there's a good chance others will want to watch your films.
Surviving financially is very hard, but you have to do it if you want it. You have to make things happen. Just keep doing it and showing it, and believe in yourself. |
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MarkBorok
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So then the bottom fell out of 2D animation unless you want to do Flash. (And I don't. I don't think of it as animation just movement.) |
That's interesting, because I was just a couple of days ago thinking this very thing about 3D animation (both computer and stop-motion). The fact is you are actually moving objects through space, not creating the illusion that an object is moving. Whereas with drawn animation, nothing has actually moved between the time you take one frame and the next.
There is nothing particularly fantastical about 3D animation (or cut-out animation). We see objects move all the time in the real world. Sometimes, as is the case with puppets, they can even seem to be moving of their own volition. On the other hand, the only way to see a drawing appear to move is through traditional animation.
I personally use Flash as a traditional animation tool, redrawing each frame more or less by hand. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised such a thing can be done.
I would also like to mention that I happened across your studio on one of my last trips to NYC. It was very reassuring to see you were still in business. |
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idragosani
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Germantown MD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| MarkBorok wrote: |
I personally use Flash as a traditional animation tool, redrawing each frame more or less by hand. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised such a thing can be done.
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Not so surprising... a lot of TV cartoons are done in Flash these days (see recent thread about 'George of the Jungle') and there was a feature film called 'Sealed with a Kiss' (based on Romeo and Juliet) done mostly in Flash with a little bit of help from Moho/Anime Studio Pro.
When using Flash, do you actually draw each frame individually or do you create lots of keyframes and morph the points, as you may see in some of the work done by Grey Kid Productions with Anime Studio Pro?
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Brett McCoy
Programmer by Day, Musician by Night
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idragosani
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Germantown MD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| MichaelS wrote: |
Surviving financially is very hard, but you have to do it if you want it. You have to make things happen. Just keep doing it and showing it, and believe in yourself. |
Havign a "day job" probably helps when you are still starting out. :D
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Brett McCoy
Programmer by Day, Musician by Night
http://www.electricminstrel.com |
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MarkBorok
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| idragosani wrote: | | MarkBorok wrote: |
I personally use Flash as a traditional animation tool, redrawing each frame more or less by hand. I'm not sure why so many people are surprised such a thing can be done.
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Not so surprising... a lot of TV cartoons are done in Flash these days (see recent thread about 'George of the Jungle') and there was a feature film called 'Sealed with a Kiss' (based on Romeo and Juliet) done mostly in Flash with a little bit of help from Moho/Anime Studio Pro.
When using Flash, do you actually draw each frame individually or do you create lots of keyframes and morph the points, as you may see in some of the work done by Grey Kid Productions with Anime Studio Pro? |
I draw each frame individually, except for any elements that might remain the same between frames (e.g. the feet of a character walking where you just cut out the foot and paste it in a new position).
Of course, that's when I'm doing it for myself and deadlines aren't an issue.
I have a sequence with a vulture circling around a person's head, its wings flapping the whole time (not realistic, I know, but that's the point). I'd like to know how exactly one would animate such a motion without redrawing each frame. |
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idragosani
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Germantown MD
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| MarkBorok wrote: |
I draw each frame individually, except for any elements that might remain the same between frames (e.g. the feet of a character walking where you just cut out the foot and paste it in a new position).
Of course, that's when I'm doing it for myself and deadlines aren't an issue.
I have a sequence with a vulture circling around a person's head, its wings flapping the whole time (not realistic, I know, but that's the point). I'd like to know how exactly one would animate such a motion without redrawing each frame. |
I'd love to see some fo your work.
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Brett McCoy
Programmer by Day, Musician by Night
http://www.electricminstrel.com |
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